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Author Topic: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo  (Read 563751 times)

Offline USSR

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2910 on: December 07, 2019, 04:39:25 pm »
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@USSR you’re basing your opinions on 10 year old jeans. All newer (less than six years old)  pairs of IH I have have a chainstitch going to the end, by the way. Things change. Do you have any 10 year old Sammy’s to compare with?
Yes I am. Manufacturer didn’t have machine which could do a chainstitch going to the end 10 years ago.
I used photo of Samurai not to compare its with IH. So you will understand what I mean clearly. For visibility.
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Perhaps the jeans are stronger as a result?
It isnt important. They didnt use a chainstitch going to the end because they couldnt.
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As noted earlier the pocket thing is a deliberate design choice.
You think so. I think that the pocket thing is a design mistake.
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I love Samurai jeans by the way.
I dont like Samurai. I like Momotaro
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seems a little silly.
It is ad hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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Offline neph93

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IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2911 on: December 07, 2019, 06:36:54 pm »
@USSR thank you for the link. Happily you needn’t have bothered as my Latin, while nowhere near as good as my English, is a lot better than my Russian. I’m afraid the principle of ad hominem isn’t really applicable here. Ad hominem is an attack on the individual instead of the matter for debate. I’m not suggesting you are «silly» (that would be rude), I’m using the word «silly» to cover the fact that your arguments lack logic and substance, largely because they are rooted in subjective, personal preference, which is being presented as objective fact, but also because they are built on unsuitable data. In this case using a pair of well used, 10 year old jeans and extrapolating observations based on these to apply to the output of the entire brand.

To summarise, you have posted a vlog on YT criticising Iron Heart jeans. As an example you use exclusively a 10 year old pair of 634s that have clearly been worn. Your complaints are that the pocket bags are too narrow to put your hands in, they do not fade with high contrast, the cut is too wide below the knee, the veg tan leather patch has a short life span, and the chain stitching on the waistband does not proceed all the way to end of the waist band.

Two of the criticisms are invalid as they are suggesting the jeans at hand should be something they are not. The 21oz denim does not fade with high contrast nor can it. The 634 cut does not have a slim knee or tapered leg, nor can it. Criticising the jeans for these things is like criticising your dog for not being a cat, or rain for being wet. It has also been mentioned that Iron Heart produces jeans that are tapered below the knee and fade with high contrast. So extrapolation of the illogical argument to the entire brand is equally invalid.

The issue of the chain stitched waistband has been rendered moot by your own admission. Apparently this was not normal 10 years ago (I did not know this). Many premium brands now complete the  chainstitch. Iron Heart is amongst them. Comparing like-for-like your pair of 10 year old Iron Heart’s have similar production values as other 10 year jeans with regards to waistbands at least. New Iron Hearts have the same chainstitched waistband as other jeans. Regardless the waistband on your jeans is intact, so the stitching seems to have done a grand job. Ergo another invalid criticism.

Next we have the pocket bags. As has been stated the design of these is deliberate. We have also established it is not to your liking. That is per definition a subjective preference. It is perfectly logical to avoid paying money for something you do not like. It is illogical to call something a mistake because of intentional design.

Finally we have the short-lived patch. I’m afraid that is simply a result of improper maintenance. If you don’t oil veg-tanned  leather before applying moisture and heat, it will degrade and fail. Add to this the age of the jeans and this particular criticism is simply ridiculous (again, the logic of it, not you personally, that would be rude). As a parallel you can consider the wisdom of leaving a hammer out in the rain for ten years, then questioning its quality when it rusts.

So of the five criticisms you present the majority are invalid and one is based on personal subjective preference that is incorrectly elevated to objective fact. If it is your pleasure to make you tube videos based on these criticisms then that is entirely up to you. If however you choose to post it on this forum, on a thread where you have previously posted, praising the longevity of said jeans, then expect to be challenged. Or to put it another way, you will be called out on your bullshit.

I’m glad you have found a brand that satisfies you. Momotaro have a rich history and produce a quality product. I hope they bring you joy.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 06:44:29 pm by neph93 »

Offline madmonday

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2912 on: December 07, 2019, 06:44:25 pm »
anything lasting 10 years is a blessing

cool u took the time 2 share your thoughts on your purchase and even do a video on it

seems like u sort of trolling but that’s just my opinion and opinions are like a$$holes and elbows

@Matty123 is spot on
head high, middle finger higher

Offline madmonday

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2913 on: December 07, 2019, 06:55:20 pm »
2 be fair haven’t seen this much movement in the 634 thread in years

 :D
head high, middle finger higher

Offline neph93

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IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2914 on: December 07, 2019, 06:56:45 pm »
2 be fair haven’t seen this much movement in the 634 thread in years

 :D
I’m enjoying myself tremendously And thank you @Chap

Offline madmonday

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2915 on: December 07, 2019, 07:02:01 pm »
@neph93 u really do have the tact and exhibit the grace of a school teacher teaching a foreign language with a blended family of twenty some odd different personalities in a foreign land

oh wait, hahaha
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Offline Seul

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2916 on: December 07, 2019, 07:23:44 pm »
 :D :D :D

madmonday - post more again, will you... For fuck's sake...

Iron Heart: make the god-dang sidepockets on jeans bigger... I know... Haraki-san doesn't want stuff fallin out of his pockets when he's riding his Harley... But it's my only peeve with IH jeans... I look like a jack ass if I wanna take out a box of Frisk mints at work... Take out pocket knife, wriggle hand into pocket, risk folk calling the fuzz cause you seem to be engaging in a frantic, tantric bit of a wank (wankric?)...

I've suggested this before... And it might never change... And I don't care... It's the single most first world problem anyone could have... And besides: the workpants don't have this issue...

#MostUselessPostof2019

Offline neph93

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IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2917 on: December 07, 2019, 08:58:42 pm »
:D :D :D

madmonday - post more again, will you... For fuck's sake...

Iron Heart: make the god-dang sidepockets on jeans bigger...I look like a jack ass if I wanna take out a box of Frisk mints at work...

+1 with Monday.

Otherwise, buy a bag ffs. You’ll get more in it and not look like you have to keep things in your pocket. In addition, bags are sexy. Winning.

Offline Seul

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2918 on: December 08, 2019, 03:42:55 am »
Can't really carry a bag with me when I'm working, innit... I'd look like a massive ballbag...

Offline neph93

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2919 on: December 08, 2019, 06:44:26 am »
Can't really carry a bag with me when I'm working, innit... I'd look like a massive ballbag...
Fanny pack/bum bag?

Offline Stuart.T

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2920 on: December 08, 2019, 07:46:18 am »
In my experience of 21oz denim, not just IH 21oz,it just doesn't last as well as a lighter weave such as 14oz. The polycotton stitching is more prone to failing, naturally, as the heavier/wider gauge used doesn't provide suffient purchase for stitching to hold firmly over any period of time.

A lighter weight dehim such as 14/15 oz (which IH also manufactures) does provide a better purchase/ground for hem/pocket/etc stitching.

That said, it is a beautiful feeling denim when it breaks in and softens, so there is the trade off.

I have never bought into the rationale that a brand's owner ONLY produces items that they would want/use. That would be a vanity project damned to failure in the long run. I've noticed the ss 20 range seems to have a different aesthetic to previous seasons, and that is nothing to do with it being an SS season rather that AW season.

I imagine brands have a choice, keep producing the same think over and over, keeping reasonably consistent (the Motorhead business model!), or  change things up from time to time, which brings in new customers, but risks criticism from others (the Sepultura/Slayer model!).

@USSR do you own any other IH products? A UHF, 14 oz denim etc? I completely uphold your right to criticise a product, but not necessarily to criticise a whole brand based on one model. That does goad the wolves to circle, as has happened here. Non-domestic sales are incredibly important to Japanese brands at the moment, so any criticisms that that may advertantly or inadvertently damage reputation would understandably be met with challenge.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 07:48:08 am by Stuart.T »

Offline Giles

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2921 on: December 08, 2019, 08:43:39 am »

I have never bought into the rationale that a brand's owner ONLY produces items that they would want/use. That would be a vanity project damned to failure in the long run. I've noticed the ss 20 range seems to have a different aesthetic to previous seasons, and that is nothing to do with it being an SS season rather that AW season.

Haraki absolutely 100% used to make only stuff he would like/wear.  It was a continuing frustration to me, but I did rather like the integrity of Haraki's position.  When we were in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago, Haraki said during a discussion about moving the brand forward "I have decided that I will start making stuff that our customers want, not just what I like", I had to place my hand on his forehead at that point as I thought he was being delirious.... :) :)

The SS20 collection reflects his changing mood.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 08:45:19 am by Giles »
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Offline Stuart.T

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2922 on: December 08, 2019, 09:08:30 am »
I suspected something along these lines. Your business acumen won over... Eventually  ;)

Offline USSR

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2923 on: December 08, 2019, 12:08:45 pm »
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not necessarily to criticise a whole brand based on one model
I dont criticise a whole brand I tell only about 634S 10 years old.
When did I criticise a whole brand, proof it
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Offline Stuart.T

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Re: IH-634S - 21oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
« Reply #2924 on: December 08, 2019, 12:28:21 pm »
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not necessarily to criticise a whole brand based on one model
I dont criticise a whole brand I tell only about 634S 10 years old.
When did I criticise a whole brand, proof it

To quote 'It is more comfortable pocket in Samurai. Because my palm fit easy in it.' you mention another brand, not another brand's model of jeans, though I might be guilty of semantics there  ;D